Being a Hindu and an atheist
As a post script to a post on Advani and the Babri Masjid demolition, Amit Varma had this to say about himself:
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By "Hindu", I mean Hindu by birth. I am an atheist by practice. Actually, um, how does one practise atheism?
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If a beast slain in the Jyothishtoma rite will itself go to heaven,
Why then does not the sacrificer (yajamana) forthwith offer his own father?
Hinduism is very loosely defined, or perhaps it's something that cannot be defined. I guess one is a Hindu as long as one says that one is not! I can be a Hindu today, a non-Hindu tomorrow, and a Hindu again the day after, eating beef today, being a vegetarian tomorrow, and indulging in blasphemy the day after.
Update (June 6): Vishnu has an excellent post on similar issues: Am I a Hindu?
(*) Here's the actual shloka:
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Live merrily as long as you can. Drink ghee and even a debtor be! When this body is reduced to ashes, where is rebirth?.
posted by Anand @ 6/04/2005
21 comments
21 Comments:
"I guess one is a Hindu as long as one says that one is not!".
I guess that is the answer to Mani Shankar Aiyar(Best Indian Ever - BIE) when he criticises Advani for saying (I don't if Advani said this, but BIE claims he did) "In India Muslims are Hindu-Muslims, Christians are Hindu-Christians.." or something to that effect.
I've had a few Americans ask me about Hinduism (as they probably did to many Indian grad students over there). I gave answers pretty much like yours, without going into Vedanta. Carvakasism sounds like the most fun kind of theology ever and the one libertarians are most likely to follow.
wonderful piece. So short, and saying so much.
Btw....there's this really smart grad student in sanskrit here at UW, and he's written a really nice primer on the different schools of vedanta. You might enjoy reading it. This is the link to the article (PDF).
Also...his article on the six darsanas. Just good simple reading...
here
Rajagopal -- I broadly agree (except for putting BIE in place!!)
Sunil -- Many thanks for the links. I just had a look at those. Will read those more seriously soon.
I think Sunil's links aren't alright. Here are the articles referred.
1. Different Varieties of Vedānta
2. On six darśanas
Hey, I guess you're right because when you really think about it - "Hinduism" is just an amalgamation of a lot of local stuff (along with the Vedic stuff). I mean people of different regiosn have very different ways of parctising the same "religion". And then there is Arya Samaj which basically tries to cut down on the "idolatry"...okay, I can't believe I'm siding with Advani on this but I'd just like to say, that since one of the essences of Hinduism is that we believe different forms of the same Divine Being, from a Hindu's point of view, everybody short of an Atheist IS a Hindu, whether they say they are or not. Because as far as Hindus are concerned: Jesus, Allah, Buddha are all just more forms of that same being (ok - I know this is blasphemous for the other religions, but bear with me here....)
Actually Anand, I've always wondered about the statement "I was born a Hindu" (or, equivalently, "I was born a Christian" etc). How is one born anything but merely human?
You are right, Dilip, but, in an absolutist sense. Such statements have acquired a meaning by usage, which I presume is sort of self-explanatory?
Such usages are sometimes helpful too, though the goal should be to have a time when these usages are meaningless. For instance, I'm for the strict implementation of the various affirmative action policies that the govt has for those who belong to the Dalit communities. Now a Dalit is one "who is born a Dalit", right? When there are no equal opportunities, equality in theory would do more harm than good?
A nice article. The beast-and-father thing is great! Seems like there is much more to Hinduism than what I was taught as a child. Unfortunately, my knowledge in Sanskrit is very limited. I can't understand most of the shlokas without translation.
I believe that the most striking characteristic of Hinduism is religious tolerance, which would now render many of the present-day "Hindus" non-Hindus.
Shivam -- My point was that there's no "practising Hindu" because no one knows how to practise Hinduism! No rules at all. Get any rule from an old Hindu text, one can get a rule contradicting that from the same or another Hindu text. So you are a Hindu if you call yourself one, you are not if you decide not to be one. As simple as that. You don't need to do anything to be a Hindu!
This may be of interest:
http://koenraadelst.voiceofdharma.org/books/wiah/index.htm
Hey Anand! Good posting.
I dont consider myself as an athiest hindu, more of an agnostic hindu. Like you, I was born into the religion (dont let the name fool you). Since my family was in South America (Guyana) for some generations, our version of Sanatan Dharma have changed from India's.... as how has India's has changed since the time my ancestors left.
Were you born in India Anand?
Thanks everybody.
Danny -- Thanks. Yes, I was born and brought up in India.
An A.K. ramanujan's poem:
THE HINDOO: he reads his GITA and is calm at all events
At this party heads have no noses, teeth close
upon my heart: yet I come unstuck and stand apart. I do not marvel
when I see good and evil: I just walk
over the iridescence
of horsepiss after rain. Knives, bombs, scandal,
and cowdung fall on women in wedding lace:
I say nothing, I take care not to gloat...
Yet when I meet on a little boy's face
the prehistoric yellow eyes of a goat
I choke, for ancient hands are at my throat.
(from Relations(1971), A.K. Ramanujan)
I'd just like to say that your article's pretty interesting! I agree with a lot of what you said!
There's a bit of confusion in the term hindu. Older generations refer to hindu as from hindustan (old name for india,or translated:country of hindus)
Of course, we know not everyone in india is hindu and so, the correct term would be Indian. So, you can be Indian and an atheist, while you cannot be hindu (faith based belief system) and atheist.
What you wrote is true. "Absolute FREEDOM OF THOUGHTS & ACTIONS" is the cardinal principle of Hinduism.
Hinduism has the strange capability to ABSORB AND GROW FROM ALL QUARTERS and that is the reason why it is very difficult to define Hinduism.
One can condemn Hinduism and still proudly proclaim he or she is Hindu.
Voltaire in Essay on Tolerance wrote:
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death, your right to say it.
Hinduism is the symbolic representation of what Voltaire wrote.
What you wrote is true. "Absolute FREEDOM OF THOUGHTS & ACTIONS" is the cardinal principle of Hinduism.
Hinduism has the strange capability to ABSORB AND GROW FROM ALL QUARTERS and that is the reason why it is very difficult to define Hinduism.
One can condemn Hinduism and still proudly proclaim he or she is a Hindu.
Voltaire in Essay on Tolerance wrote:
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death, your right to say it.
Hinduism is the symbolic representation of what Voltaire wrote.
I am an Hindu atheist too. Atheism is very much a part of Hinduism. I quote from Amartya Sen :
"In some ways people had got used to the idea that India was spiritual and religion-oriented. That gave a leg up to the religious interpretation of India, despite the fact that Sanskrit had a larger atheistic literature than exists in any other classical language. Even within the Hindu tradition, there are many people who were atheist. Madhava Acharya, the remarkable 14th century philosopher, wrote this rather great book called Sarvadarshansamgraha, which discussed all the religious schools of thought within the Hindu structure. The first chapter is "Atheism" - a very strong presentation of the argument in favor of atheism and materialism."
Hinduism does not hold any person to a particular God. You can choose any God as your idol. Also you can choose no God as your idol. It doesn't ever say that you have to choose some god definitely. You may take anything as god or nothing as God. But in other religions you do not have any choice. You have to follow a particular God to belong to that religion.
I'm curious about the translations you have on there. I've recently been reading about Carvaka and have seen the "Liver merrily as long as you can" phrase but worded a bit differently in english, and the sanskrit is similar but not the same. I was just wondering if you made the translation yourself or found it somewhere. Thanks.
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